PixlBit

Just to put a final note on this whole 3DS Ambassador thing - it's just bad business. Nintendo tried to scalp their customers on price and did. Then shortly thereafter when people didn't adopt the system they cut the price to avoid digging themselves a hole. My whole point is that the Ambassador games come at no cost to Nintendo and it's a weasel way to "show they're sorry."

I just want it to be known that just because you dropped 20 games on me, it doesn't make up for the price drop. Rather than encourage this behavior, I want it to be known that they should put some serious thought into what they price their system and not be greedy. I also want Nintendo to know that they've hurt my consumer confidence and I won't be as quick to adopt new systems in the future.

I think that too many people are giving Nintendo a pass on the 3DS price drop because of the Ambassador program and that's crap. Sure, games drop in price - and any smart consumers know that if you are patient and wait a month, you'll get a price drop. This was an unprecedented move in hardward, especially for a company like Nintendo, and I feel as if I was swindled. I felt similarly when Dead Rising came out (my first $60 game purchase) and it so quickly dropped in price.

This industry is bad enough about pricing products to meet consumer demand and I refuse to give Nintendo any credit for their actions. In the case of Twisted Metal, I was unaware that it was only in first run copies. My plan was predicated on the fact that I would be picking the game up at a later date with the bonus. If that's not the case, then I agree, the bonus is a bit lame and is more of a bait to spend more money on the game up front. Chances are you'll be able to buy Black on PSN at a later date for around $10, which means you could wait for a price drop, but Black on PSN, and still get everything for much cheaper than adopting on day one.

Part of what makes the whole Twisted Metal thing better is that you know the full scope of the situation up front. If I choose to adopt, I know the risk I take. If Nintendo told me on day one that a price drop was imminent and their way of making it up to me was 20 free games, I would've waited for the price drop (assuming I wasn't running a game site and had no obligation to buy the system). It's all about awareness in this case.

I understand your point, but I actually bought a 3DS for the site. I didn't feel the price was fair, just that it was a necessary expense. Had I not been running this site, I would not have bought the 3DS at launch. I probably still wouldn't have one at this point. I'm a very frugal gamer and though my game collection is enormous, I rarely pay much (less than 5-10 dollars) for anything I buy.

Under any other circumstances, I'd agree with your viewpoint, but I think this is a special case.

Also, I don't think Nintendo had to do anything and quite frankly, I don't care that they did. It changes absolutely nothing for me as a consumer and I would've harbored the same frustration no matter their actions with such a drastic price cut.

Fair enough, that puts a different perspective on it for sure.  Honestly the only reason I bought one is that my DS died and I didn't see spending only slightly less on an XL when the 3ds was out.  Feb marks the release for the platform that I'm actually looking forward to (Tales of the Abyss) but I STILL don't think I'd have bought one had my DS held up.  My family has Zelda, Mario, and Mario Kart and I'm still playing Etrian Odyssey III right now.

I still say the average consumer may be justified in their frustration, but at the end of the day, they decided to purchase the hardware at that price with no additional perks.  Sorry to say that they only person they really have to blame is the one they see in the mirror.

To an extent, I think I see your point, but at the same time I feel like buying a system is like signing an invisible contract. Historically, it's a couple years (or more) before a price drop happens. So part of that investment is an assumption that you're willing to pay more if your alternative is waiting years before you can get it at a cheaper price.

Typically, most hardware manufacturers have lived by this contract, but Nintendo threw it out the window. While I totally agree that the consumer made a conscious decision to purchase at full retail price, they may have done it on the pretense that they were adopting early to avoid waiting years to play new games. 

It's funny you choose to start out like that. With Nintendo attempting to scalp their customers. Take a look at the Vita, for example. Sony is literally charging $100 extra for a cheap case, a $40 game, and a $20 4GB memory card to get the Vita a week early. When you want to point to scalping, that's scalping.

But that's beside the point. I'm not talking about the Vita, I'm talking about the 3DS and console price drops in general. I will concede that a drastic price cut isn't ordinary for Nintendo handhelds, yes, but I'm not willing to concede much more than that. At the time of the price drop, sales were stagnating, and publishers were beginning to publicly cancel support for the console. At the same time, the same publishers were having issues getting titles, even ports like Metal Gear Solid 3D, out of the door. Based on handheld console history and the sales numbers at the time, many analysts and members of the media were predicting a potential doom. Even on PixlTalk, you and I debated whether it was possible for a price cut alone to revive lagging 3DS sales. My point here is this: In order to ensure that the device you paid $250 for had an actual value greater than a plastic brick, Nintendo had to make sure it saw lasting sales and received content from 3rd parties. At the rate the 3DS was going before the drop, the 3DS would have probably been considered dead in the water, even by Nintendo at the end of the year.

What makes me say that? Look at the N-Gage, look at the Neo Geo Pocket Color, even look at the Virtual Boy. The Virtual Boy died almost instantly, and started with a retail price of $180. But that really isn't the point either.

The point is, you're not "owed" anything for the console's price being lowered. Yes, you did buy a 3DS for $250. You and I both talked about how it felt a little stiff given the launch line-up and build-quality of the device. The things we noted reflected the market's response: They didn't buy it. And when things don't sell, they drop in price. In the 3DS's case, the price drop was five months after launch for 32%. In the Playstation's case, the price drop was 33% after eight months. Did any early adopters get anything extra there? No. In the GameCube's case, the price drop was 25% six months after launch. Nothing free there. In the N64's case, the price dropped 25% six months later. No freebies there. The PS3's price dropped $100 after eight months. No added bonus there, either. The Xbox cost $100 less after just six months with no special gifts of any sort.

I don't have data beyond that. In all but the PS3's case, the price cut was at least 25% off the initial retail price. In all others, it was 33% lower. Yes, these cuts did happen a little after five months, but six-eight months isn't all that much longer. So what's the difference between the PSX, the GameCube, the N64, the Xbox, the PS3 and the 3DS? For the 3DS, Nintendo actually decided to give something away to say "We're sorry we had to do this so soon." All those other consoles often had something to sweeten the deal for later purchasers, and were "satisfied" to have your money. And you remember as well as I do: For most of those consoles, there were significantly few quality titles available early in the system's life.

Anyway, the root of the argument was that you harshly criticized the 3DS ambassador program because you had all the games it had to offer. You stated you didn't see the value in having these games on the 3DS, as the added convenience wasn't worth it to you. The 20 ambassador games brought a few NES games into the portable realm, and at least save the hassle of dealing with a GBA/DS/DSLite and GBA cartridges if you feel the desire to play any of those games, like Yoshi's Island, again. The other side of the argument was praise for Twisted Metal's announced inclusion of Twisted Metal Black for download on the PS3. This title, like several of the ambassador titles, was one you already owned, and provided convenience for playing the game so you won't have to deal with a PS2 anymore to play it. In the story you commented on, you neglected to notice that the offer was a limited one, which is something right out of our story's headline. You also failed to notice that this was likely included to make up for the game's probable inclusion of an online pass, something the game's director is on-record for being against.

So, what I am trying to assert is this: It is typical for a gaming console to see a price deduction within one half to three quarters of a year, and the price deduction often is around what we saw for the 3DS. Never before, has a game company offered a free gift to early adopters of a console where there was not some kind of hardware defect present. Yes, the 3DS's price was lowered a month earlier than those consoles of recent record, and yes, not all consoles have seen that type of price drop, but it isn't irregular in any way. You received a free gift. One you didn't expect. One greater than done before. Yeah, the 3DS was overpriced. So was a console from the past few generations from every console maker, according to the hasteness of price drops. It's nothing new. I for one, applaud Nintendo's decision to give a free gift for the price drop. Unlike the PSN hacking, where Sony gave away a few things (all of which served as advertisements for newer and upcoming Sony release), none of my data was compromised. Microsoft hasn't really given anything away aside from a few XBL Gold weekends here or there. Nintendo chose to do something no one else has done yet, and I like it. It definitely bodes better than giving a gift because a title comes with a crummy online pass, or even charging an extra $40-$100 to have a Vita a week early.

Edit: Yes I will be reading some of this on PB & Jason next issue, so I don't feel like I wasted my time writing it all up here. =P

I don't have time right now to reply to all of this. I will quickly state that I never felt I was owed anything for the price drop. I understand why Nintendo dropped the price of the system, but the crux of the problem is that Nintendo publicly stated their intentions of scalping the consumer.

In any event, it's not just one thing individually. Essentially the entire culmination of the situation from the rushed release of the system, to the crappy launch line up, to the knowingly overpriced hardware, to the poor release schedule (up until recently), all paint a picture of a really mismanaged product. I understand the intention of the Ambassador program, and while I think it's easy to praise Nintendo for doing it, I don't think that it makes up for the disaster the 3DS has been up until now. Nintendo gave us an unfinished product and then cut the price when they actually had the thing fully implemented. You can give me whatever you want, but it doesn't make up for what I consider gross mistreatment of your customers. I think it stings that much worse because this is not the way Nintendo has operated in any recent memory. Maybe back in the NES days, but not in the modern landscape.

As for Twisted Metal - while I may have missed the limited run stuff, I can almost promise you'll be able to find games in that run on store shelves after price drops happen. But all of that is irrelevant - it's something that's known up front, so you as a consumer can make an informed decision on whether or not that bonus is worth adopting early. If I were to get the game anyway, I think it's a neat bonus. My excitement is mostly derived from the fact that when I invariably find the game on the used game rack or in the bargain bin, there's a good chance I'll be getting an extra free game without needing to adopt early. That's the Cheap Ass Gamer in me.

It's a download code for Twisted Metal Black, so you won't be able to get the code used, I wouldn't imagine. Maybe from someone on eBay perhaps. Maybe.

You'd be surprised how often the codes aren't redeemed in used games. Not saying it's a definite, but based on the quality of the box and the inserts you can usually make an educated guess on when a code hasn't been touched.

One note on the Vita "scalping."  That pack you're talking about is $350, but includes the 3G model which is going for $300.  That means that you get that case, memory card and game for an extra $50 in addition to getting the system early.

So if you were planning on getting the 3G model it's actually a pretty good deal.

You know what? I completely missed that. I didn't pay enough attention to the box-art, went looking at the specs at Amazon, saw where it talked about wireless communications, and saw the WiFi stats, but no 3G info there, and made the wrong assumption. That one's completely my mistake.

You know what still sucks about the deal though?  The game you get is Little Deviants.

I also still see the 3G version of the Vita as something not worth it. The whole "Using AT&T's unreliable 3G to play a game online?" I don't exactly think that'll work great all the time. The alternative slightly good news is that AT&T hinted that either the 3G version can be upgraded to LTE or that there's an LTE version on the way. On the flipside, good luck finding an AT&T LTE-enabled city...

Nintendo's price cut and ambassador program is really just them trying to give gamers some good will. However, with the console not being in my opinion a great piece of hardware (limited 3D view, poor software lineup), giving consumers 20 games that don't utilize the technology they spent so much on is disappointing.

Now I love getting free stuff and Nintendo did do us the courtesy of offering (mostly) quality titles. I also don't think they needed to give anything. Consumers knew what they were paying for and if they did buy it early, they believed it was worth the money, exceptions aside.

The real problem here is that Nintendo hasn't supplied the handheld with a true reason to own it. So their good will gesture is still pretty much empty. I personally have a rule that I wait at least a year to buy a new console or handheld and also make sure it has around ten games I want for it. Ironically, I implemented this rule after getting the Nintendo 64 at launch.

I guess I understand being upset over a price drop so sudden but I expect it as such because games drop in price quickly as Jason said. It is surprising that Nintendo did so though. Donkey Kong Country Returns is still $50.

In summation, I think the free games are nice but it doesn't solve anything. It's like if someone comes over to your place and breaks your lamp. They apologize and give you a coupon for a free pizza. That's nice and all but you're still out a lamp. They should've replaced the lamp.

Oh and what makes the Vita better than the 3DS (because Sony's doing the same kind of gouging) is at least I know I'm getting screwed beforehand. Also, free games are cool so limited run or not, the addition of Twisted Metal: Black (one of my favorite PS2 games ever) is awesome. What I wonder is if it's the version with the online play.

Oh and Sonic doesn't have needles or spikes. That's just his fur / hair. He's able to defeat badniks and cut stuff because he's spinning so fast, the friction cuts through this.

That progressive commercial is weird, right? What's stranger is they used sound effects from Sonic the Hedgehog 3. That's a 17 year old game. WTF?

Hedgehogs have spines, which are similar, but not exactly the same as a porcupine's quills. They're not the same as fur, though.

I know hedgehogs have spikes. Sonic doesn't though. He's not an anatomically correct hedgehog. Hedgehogs also aren't blue, they don't wear sneakers and they don't have a 'tude.

That's a good point. I'd like to know that too.

I don't think there's any surefire way, as publishers don't often disclose how large of a run they are going to do, nor what the current demand is. With some of Nintendo's more limited releases, they've indicated as such ahead of release (Super Mario All-Stars, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Zelda w/ Gold Remote).

There are a few methodologies you can employ:

1). Who is the publisher and how big are they? If they are a small publisher (like Atlus, or NIS, or XSEED) the run is likely to be small. The more niche the title, the smaller the run.

2). How did the last game in the series do? If it sold poorly and is still being published despite low sales numbers, it's likely the publisher is going to do a small run to avoid over stock and buy backs. Dragon Quest V (DS) fell victim to this.

3). What's the genre of the game? If it's something Japanese, it's probably getting a small run - those types of games don't do well in America these days.

4) .Where is the game available at release? If you can't find it at the big stores like Walmart, Target, and Best Buy, it's probably a limited production.

With all of this, it's worth keeping in mind that just because something has a limited run that it won't get cheaper and still be easy to find down the road. Stuff like Spyborgs had a very limited run, but sold so poorly that it was easy to track down for years after its release (I just got a copy a few months back).

If you do think a game is going to get a limited run, it's important to keep a very close eye on it. Sites like Cheap Ass Gamer do a great job of tracking game prices and you should use them to your benefit. You can definitely get rare games at cheap prices if you are vigilent about tracking them from the point they hit the market.

Hope this helps - I do have some experience with this. Oh, also of merit - check your local Gamestop, especially during Buy 2 Get 1 sales. You'd be surprised how often you can find these rarer games in phenomenal condition way down the line on the cheap. People who buy those types of games tend to keep them in tip top shape, for whatever reason.

Also worth noting is that most games with lower runs, albeit not all of them, can be found on Amazon for quite some time. Worth noting, Chrono Trigger DS is available for 18.50 new, right now.

Mostly, when I talked about game prices dropping, I was referring to major titles. With smaller games, like Nick mentions, you've got to be a lot more careful, perhaps to the extent it isn't worth fretting over depending on how vigilant you care to be and how much you're looking for the game. Nick's tip about the game not being at Target, Walmart, and Best Buy is a great indicator, for one. If you are willing to buy used, GS's sales are also pretty useful.

That said, I would personally imagine Tales of the Abyss will be easy enough to find at a discounted price, just by looking at 3DS game sales trends. No, it won't be published in massive quantities, but I don't imagine it will sell out immediately. Checking for various other Tales games on Amazon showed that a few of the most popular ones, including a few on the PS2, are still available new even now.