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Some musings on RPGs, CRPGs, and Genre Distinction (Part 1?)


On 11/02/2015 at 07:53 PM by Machocruz

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"Another thing: I think a lot of people are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  Couples role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure, keeps it consistent.

There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Terms become political or cultural weapons. Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and action games can now be called RPG by those who want to think they have more sophisticated taste than the next guy. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect 2..."

-Me, taken from another forum, edited for clarity.

Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.d
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.
Another thing: I think a lot of people, especially the console crowd, are very pedantic about the terminology. They focus on the"role-playing" part, take it too literally, and overlook the "game" part. They say things like "Stats don't define role-playing."  No, but they are part of the fucking game aspect.  They role-play in marriage counseling, but it's lame. The game part is what makes it the thing, gives it a firm structure.
 
There is also lack of respect for terminology, origins of terminology, purpose of terminology. I've never accepted the "language is fluid" idea. In practice this has been the case, but that means any person or group can massage words to fit their own agenda. People are not honest, don't act with integrity, don't care about consistency.  Someones unmade bed can be called "art" now, and dumb action games can now be called RPG by pleb who want to think they have monocled taste. Because RPGs are like sophisticated and stuff, like Mass Effect.

 

Comments

Ranger1

11/03/2015 at 09:00 AM

In my opinion, genre is kind of a made-up construct, be it movies, games, music, or books. As for RPGs being more sophisticated than action games, well that's a crock. Did someone actually say that? I play games because they're fun. Sometimes I have more fun playing something more story-driven, sometimes I just want to blow shit up. Depends on my mood and the kind of day I've had.

Machocruz

11/03/2015 at 05:43 PM

Yes, some people believe that RPGs require more thought than action games. Sometimes that may be true, but not the kind of RPGs these people play which are very simplistic. But they want to elevate themselves in their own minds by associating themselves with the "higher" genre.  That's what I mean by having an agenda.

Although I was/am a big fan of RPGs in all their forms, these days I don't look at video games that way.  I look at the specific setting, content, and mechanics each game is offering and whether they are interesting to me. Like I'm not really interested in these CRPG revivals that are the rage in crowd-funding. Those are for the people who never played them before or only played a few of them. I've played a ton of them, I want new ideas. Still, I think respect for terminology and its origin and purpose is important.

Matt Snee Staff Writer

11/04/2015 at 04:43 AM

let's not forget sometimes you can blow shit up as part of a great story.  Tongue Out

Jamie Alston Staff Writer

11/03/2015 at 08:36 PM

Amen to that brother.  I alsways liked RPGs for the story. It was like seeing the events in a fantasy book playing out on the screen. But I never considered it as particularly superior to other game genres.

Machocruz

11/04/2015 at 07:13 AM

Narrative is also part of that "superiority complex" people have. I'm sure you've seen it before.Somewhere along the line, story became some kind of measure of intellectual substance, maturity or an artistic standard bearer (e.g. the notion that a story makes a game "art," not mechanics, systems, or anything actually unique to games...). How story came to this elevated position in their minds, I have no idea. But I like to poke them and say stuff like "No, more like you need electronic mommy to read you bedtime stories all day."

Jamie Alston Staff Writer

11/05/2015 at 10:56 AM

HA HAAA HAAAAA!!

KnightDriver

11/04/2015 at 02:55 AM

You can apparently play many sports games like RPGs. The new NBA game among them. Kat Bailey on the Axe of the Blood God podcast (formerly of Active Time Babble and 1UP) talks about that all the time.

Elements of traditional RPGs have been taken for other genres of games now. Stuff like extensive stat management, level progression and equipment buffs. It tends to blur the lines drawn between genres. But I think genres are largely created by marketers to help them describe their product and identify their buyers. How much it matters to the rest of us becomes a social issue I suppose. RPG = nerd. Sports = cool. Whoever wants to seem more important chooses their side and then makes up a line of reasoning to prove they are better. It's stupid. 

Machocruz

11/04/2015 at 07:05 AM

Video RPGs can only be a facsimile of the founding form, which is tabletop. It's the best we can do. The more extensive the facsimile, the more justified is the classification.  This is why platitudes like "You play a role in every game" or "this game has hit points therefore it is..." are glib.  One is pedantic (and incorrect), both are a reductive way of defining a genre made of many interrelated systems.

But people are entitled to engage in caste warfare based on false premises and egomania, if they wish.

 

KnightDriver

11/04/2015 at 03:41 PM

You could rigidly define RPGs based on their origin, but everthing evolves, and new elements enter into the definition over time. Sometimes the whole definition changes from the original one after years of iteration. It's just the nature of things.

I often try and role-play a game, any game, just for fun. Does that mean I'm making it a RPG? I guess so if you stick to the exact words I just used.

I guess the issue today is that games can do so many things because of the power of better technology, that it makes genre distinctions harder to pin down. For me I could care less about how you define a game. I try all different stuff and don't stick to one type of experience anyway. It makes me think of music and how publishers try to name a style so they can sell it better. Or historians putting labels on time periods so they can write an authoritative sounding book. In some ways it's helpful, in others it's misleading.

Matt Snee Staff Writer

11/04/2015 at 04:44 AM

I think language is fluid, whether we like it or not.  It seems to have a life of its own, and you're right, terminology can be a weapon.  Words are like magic spells, and they have power, power we can barely understand.  

Machocruz

11/04/2015 at 07:24 AM

Yes, in practice that has been the case. It's intellectually lazy to me though (or outright dishonest, often times), unless that evolution happens through rigorous application of reason by honest and informed minds.  Otherwise we're just doing things to serve selfish purpose, not to serve truth, understanding. and accuracy.

Matt Snee Staff Writer

11/04/2015 at 07:29 AM

I don't think we could ever control it. Everybody's got different understandings of words whether we regiment it or not. Various power structures obviously use certain words to accomplish certain goals, but even without them, I think language would still be an animal we can't quite leash. 

I don't really know much about language, but I do know it's fucking insane.  Laughing

Machocruz

11/04/2015 at 07:44 AM

Well, I'd say some people have different misunderstandings of words. To be more clear: taken to a logical extreme, these kind of people would believe that classifying a prune as an aircaft is valid.  There are a lot of terms with only one or two possible understandings. Otherwise, communication would be chaos and we would have never gotten this far if our ancestors let today's creeping degree of subjective thinking shape language. Fucking insane, indeed. I feel like I'm in another dimension reading some discussions online.

KnightDriver

11/04/2015 at 03:47 PM

"communication would be chaos" Ha! Exactly. It is when you look at the history of language. I took in a lecture on linguistics once and it made me realize the essential chaos of language and how it evolves. How we got this far indeed. How did we with so much change in language, sometimes for very trivial reasons, over time. I mean, I hear slang today and realize that I'm witnessing the slow change of language. This slang will alter the language we have, or create a new language eventually. It makes philosophising really difficult if we can't agree on the meaning of words.

Super Step Contributing Writer

11/04/2015 at 07:22 PM

Are we speaking literally literally or literally figuratively here? I can't tell. 

Blake Turner Staff Writer

11/04/2015 at 06:38 PM

RPGs are superior to other games though, because I like it and I'm superior to other gamers.

 Seriously though, does it matter? All it is is a way to group things so people can find what they're looking for. Is it perfect? Hell no. There is no way Dark Souls, Mass Effect, Baldur's Gate, Deus Ex, and Diablo should be bundled in together, but they are. But when someone describes something as an RPG to me I generally just think of a game that is either story based or character progression based.

Machocruz

11/05/2015 at 06:14 AM

Yes, logical consistency and linguistic accuracy and integrity matter if you want to play on my team. Other then that people can call Gran Turismo a muffin baking simulator as long as they admit they're just pulling shit out of their own ass

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