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Diversity lounges: Good idea or segregation re-packaged?


On 12/21/2013 at 08:21 PM by BrokenH

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"Yes, Pax's "diversity lounge idea" is paved with good intentions but is it just another type of segregation?"

So what has human evolution brought me today? Why, the concept of “diversity lounges”! Apparently PAX is designating certain booths for “diverse people”. Wait, I have seen this before! Remember when Blacks had their bathroom & water fountains and White folks had their bathrooms and water fountains? Remember when Blacks had to sit at certain designated places on the bus until the lovely Rosa Parks changed all that? Okay, I’ll shut up now. I have no right to speak on behalf of “Black issues” (I’m pretty pale even as crackas and vampires go) but my point is segregating people IS NOT A FUCKING IMPROVEMENT!

I understand one of the Penny arcade guys got in some sort of nasty argument with a transgendered person. He said something along the lines of “Girls have vaginas” and to a transgendered that can be an offensive statement. The event that I noticed more than this was Carolyn Petit (A really good reviewer and a true gamer enthusiast even if I don’t always agree with her) getting bashed for being trans when she had the audacity to give GTA 5 a 9 out of 10. (I know, right? What was that bitch thinking?! No, I’m not being serious. For the Neanderthals I’m referring to, what the fuck is wrong with you people? You’re raging over a near perfect score and adding your own bigotry into the mix? Grow up!) Alas, things really haven’t been kosher for the transgendered community and that’s an understatement.

Still, Mike (Gabe) “was” apologetic. The argument in part seemed to be over a slight misunderstanding and I kind of doubt the penny arcade guys are waiting at PAX with aluminum bats to “teach trannies a lesson”. You know how game journalism can be. Many of these events get sensationalized and blown out of proportion. (But yes, hostility towards trans people is a “thing”, Don’t delude yourselves into thinking it’s not. Don‘t believe me? Read the replies Carolyn got for her GTA 5 review!)

Anyway, I have things to say to both parties!

To the diversity lounge peeps

I understand there are many assholes out there and just like assholes everyone has an opinion! Of those opinions, most of them stink! I can’t truly empathize with just how difficult it is to be trans, gay, or any other minority still fighting for their freedoms but I can say “sanctuary” is a flawed concept. The only way to get the world to accept you is to be out in it! No, this is not always easy. People have died fighting for civil rights. Granted, it’s a tad less risky today depending on where you hold up a picket sign but there will always be danger involved when fighting against the status quo. Alas, the right path is never the easy path. Sitting on your ass putting out tweets isn’t as revolutionary as being active. Nor is sitting within an echoe chamber where everyone discusses and always agrees/disagrees on the same issues. Many folks have yet to realize this! (I’m sadly one of those lazy pseudo armchair activists though admittedly my mobility is limited by not having a car or much in the way of cold hard currency! Being disabled also presents a few of its’ own unique challenges.)

However, PAX is not a friggin lion pit in Rome! Yes, maybe someone in row 2 will tell an inappriopiate joke that reddens your ears thus making you want to punch the silly bastard next to you who is dressed up as Wario just so you can alleviate some of your pent up frustration! Beyond that, no one is probably going to have the sheer audacity and brass balls to mess with you physically. No gamer wants to be greeted by frowning police officers knocking on their door early in the morning and our society is just progressive enough more people will jump to your defense or act as witnesses on your behalf. The gyst of what I'm saying? If you want to go to PAX you should do so. There are much worse fates out there than simply being offended by jerk-offs!

This may come off as harsh. I simply believe there has to be a better way to bridge the gap between gamers without reinstating segregation and designating “special lounges” for certain people. Am I the only one that sees this as taking two steps back? Do we really want to live in the 1950’s again?

If there are any trans peeps reading this, do you agree with the diversity lounge idea or do you feel as I do? Your thoughts on it will be more insightful than my own!

To the rest of the peeps

In the words of Bill & Ted, “Be excellent to each other!” . That’s the golden rule isn’t it? Maybe you feel uncomfortable around gay and trans people or maybe you do not. Either way, I doubt it will kill you folks to be courteous, friendly, and polite. They’re gamers too and for some of you they are also family and close friends. As much as I bitch about radical feminism, misguided white knights, and judgmental social justice warriors, we’ve come a long way since the barbaric dark ages. Let’s make sure we continue to move forward in spite of the occasional stumble! No one should feel “afraid” to attend PAX. The fact some gamers feel this way is reason enough to be concerned.


 

Comments

KnightDriver

12/22/2013 at 02:50 AM

I guess this is all to make up for the "dickwolves" thing that happened a few years ago. I read about it in this Wired article. They're giving free space to exhibitors who promote diverse interests in gaming. I guess that's good but it seems like a quick bandaid to make up for Mike Krahulik's rather crass stand on a joke involving rape. I can see why he wants to shove it in people's faces who didn't get the joke in his strip but there's a time to stand up for a joke and a time to just let it go because it touches a nerve in people. The good comic has to ultimately give in to the crowd if he wants to stay on stage. I think he's hurting himself by doing things like making "dickwolf" t-shirts. I'm not sure this diversity lounge thing is going clean up his image. What was he thinking?

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 08:52 PM

Yeah. I mean it's nice to have a space on the floor for gay and trans folks but why are they seen as different from all other gamers in the first place? 

If diversity lounges are really needed I feel kinda sad because I'd like to believe gays and transgendered people can mingle with the rest of the gamer populace without much incident.

jgusw

12/22/2013 at 06:53 AM

This is all news to me.  I tried to get some more news on the subject, but I can't find anything that is evidence of what was exactly done or said.  All I could find is what other people say was done & said and how upset they are over it.  Sadly, I've learn from experience that going by just that isn't exactly the truth of what happen.  Anyone have a link or clip of what this is all about? 

I do agree that separating yourself from everything else is a bad idea.  Now-a-days it just says, "In this section are the people we should be extra sensetive too".  In other words, "pussyfoot around them".  Nothing about it says, "treat them as you would treat anyone else".  Giving the idea that we should protect them from the world is not helping them at all.  People are afraid to go to PAX?  Really?  

It bothers me that some people think we should change our normal behavior and bend over backwards for "special" people.  I can't do or say something because I may offend someone.  It's not like the "special" people are trying not to say anything or do something that offends me.  I have to take their shit, but they can't take mine?  Yeah, that's equal. Undecided

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 09:28 PM

Just type in "Diversity Lounge at Pax" and it'll bring up many articles,James. There are some that think this could be a good be a potentially thing (Kotaku in particular) and some that don't.

Admittedly the "intent" behind this is benign. I'm just worried about what it'll actually do in the long run instead. I would rather be "incorrect" in this case but this does remind me a bit of the 1920's-1950's in the south. They can wrap it in a pretty bow but if it's shit it's still shit. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

Super Step Contributing Writer

12/22/2013 at 09:52 AM
This comment has been removed.

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 09:00 PM

Actually there was a person offended by something other than the dick-wolves controversy. During that twitter argument Gabe did in fact say "Girls have vaginas". I DID NOT take that as a rape reference though I understand the "dick wolves controversy" is about a rape joke in one of the PA comic strips.

I also understand the diversity lounges are being pushed by at least one influencial person in the LGBT community but even if that's the case and these folks still aren't confined to that area it still smacks of "special treatment" and drawing attention to what makes us different as opposed to reinforcing what makes us the same. I admit the intentions are good but the execution seems very flawed to me personally.

However,if you see the potential good in the idea I hope you will be right in the long run,Joe!

Super Step Contributing Writer

12/23/2013 at 12:39 AM

Ah, I see. Well, there's my answer, I did misiniterpret your blog, so I'll delete the post to free up some space.

 I'm not gonna hurt my brain trying to wrap my head around exactly what side I'm on with this vagina comment, though. Like Matt said, too close to Christmas to be getting that wrapped up in it. Yes, I realize I wrote you a novel about the other thing; I don't function well on lack of sleep.  lol 

As for the diversity lounge, I can easily see where all parties are coming from. Like I said, I guess we'll see. 

BrokenH

12/23/2013 at 02:56 PM

In this case I really hope I'm incorrect,Joe. I'd love it if diversity lounges did in fact actually do something positive for the LGBT gaming community.

I just believe instead of it being in a separate space it should be more integrated onto the main floor itself. Hopefully that is how they do it.

Otherwise it'll come off as the LGBT folks simply being "pushed to the side" and that would not be good at all.

Super Step Contributing Writer

12/23/2013 at 07:03 PM

I definitely see your point. I agree having something like this in the middle of everything would be better. 

Super Step Contributing Writer

12/22/2013 at 09:56 AM

P.S. Apologies for the blog-in-blog post. I understand if this is a TL;DR situation for you, so TL;DR version: I have some issues with the way you represented this topic, but want to make sure I understand you properly before making that judgment. I can see both sides of the issue(s) you bring up in this blog, but of course have my leanings, and look forward to discussing some of this further if you wish. 

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 09:07 PM

PS: Never take my blogs as "fact". I never claimed to be an actual reporter. I just give my point of view on issues I come across at the time!

Beyond that, Kotaku's view on the diversity lounges is not the only one out there. Perhaps "the truth" lays somewhere in the middle?

Gabes apology (That offended certain folks all the same)

Super Step Contributing Writer

12/23/2013 at 12:43 AM

I don't expect you to be a reporter, but my initial incorrect reading of your blog made me think you were misrepresenting certain things to better support a particular agenda. Glad that wasn't the case, and I was wrong. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Ramadanalonadingdong or whatever you wish to you, good sire!

BrokenH

12/23/2013 at 02:45 PM

You wished me MERRY CHRISTMAS?! I'm offended,sir! I celebrate Satanic Santa Claus Day! Just kidding, Joe. lol. As for misinterpreting blogs what can I say other than I've done it too. It's no big!

Super Step Contributing Writer

12/23/2013 at 07:07 PM

I just read TheLastninja's RETRO Christmas games blog, and I thought one game he described involved Santa hitting kids in his invincibilty mode. I guess I'm just misinterpreting left and right. I'm literally so tired I'm dizzy now and was when I wrote my initial response to your blog. I need sleep.

Matt Snee Staff Writer

12/22/2013 at 09:58 AM

it's too close to xmas for me to get involved with this, but I do agree this might be a problem.  I can see the good intentions, and maybe it will work out.  but it also smells funny.  I don't like those Penny Arcade anyway.  Their comic has never made me laugh, and they seem quite full of themselves.  But to each their own. 

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 09:02 PM

I think the "intention" is good. I'm just not sold on all this being the best way to deal with the problem.

KnightDriver

12/22/2013 at 11:31 PM

My feeling exactly.

Cary Woodham

12/22/2013 at 10:47 AM

I've never heard of a 'diversity lounge,' but if I go to PAX next year, I guess I can find out.

Nah, I probably won't.  I'll be so busy attending my meetings and appointments there.

Ben, I hop you have a Merry Christmas.  Always remember that I think about and pray for all my online friends, including you.

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 09:10 PM

I'm hoping my fears are dismissed and the diversity lounges turn out to be a good thing,Cary. I actually want to be wrong on this! By the way, Merry Christmas and have fun at PAX!

Aboboisdaman

12/22/2013 at 08:56 PM

It was absolutely ridiculous when people were attacking Carolyn over giving GTA 5 a 9. That's almost a perfect score! Reading through those comments was sickening and made me lose faith in humanity. I don't know about these diversity lounges, but I don't think that segregation is the answer.

On a much lighter note... happy birthday Ben!!! 

BrokenH

12/22/2013 at 09:12 PM

I don't believe the diversity lounges are intended to be segregation,Aaron. I'm merely afraid that may end up being the end result anyway.

Regardless,thanks for the best wishes,mate! Hope your holidays are merry!

Blake Turner Staff Writer

12/23/2013 at 12:12 AM

 I agree. How in the fuck did they think this is a good idea? If anything they're propegating hatred here.

BrokenH

12/23/2013 at 03:00 PM

They mean well,Blake. But yeah, segregation is segegation no matter how you package it. But if the lounge is intergrated on the main floor as part of the community as opposed to being put off to the side maybe it can still be saved. As Joe said, "Guess we'll wait and see!" I totally hope I'm wrong about the negative direction this could potentially go in.

Machocruz

12/23/2013 at 11:12 AM

Segregation is forced seperation. No one is forced into the Diversity Lounge, nor is it hidden away in the back of the hall. It's akin to the concept of a "safe space," which is a liberal idea, the idea being that marginalized people  have a place where they can go to socialize and exchange ideas without being undermined by the privileged. People are free to mingle in or outside of the lounge as they please, but inside the smaller space of the lounge discrimination and bigotry will be easier to spot and neutralize. It's not comparable in any way to instituionalized segregation during the 50s.

 In a perfect world, they'd be able to monitor the entire event space and ensure that no one is suffering ill treatment. But it's not a perfect world, they can't monitor the entire event space. But they can monitor a smaller space and make absolutely sure people aren't being undermined for being different. It's a management strategy.

BrokenH

12/23/2013 at 03:10 PM

I dunno,Chris. I mean you could make the argument segegated water fountains of the past were not truly segregated because Blacks could still freely roam the rest of a particular building. To me we're potentially going to a somewhat blurred line.

I realize "why" the diversity lounges were created and it was to be helpful but don't you think it's "drawing attention" to LGBT gamers as opposed to merely allowing them to mingle without a huge neon sign glaring above them announcing to the rest of the gaming community that they are delicate special snowflakes? At a gaming convention why should gender or sexual preference even be a "thing" in the first place? Can't people of different backgrounds simply enjoy the same hobby and be happy about that?

Trust me, I do hope I'm incorrect about this but I think it could potentially create a greater divide between gamers as opposed to drawing us together. If I'm wrong though we can celebrate,aye?

Machocruz

12/23/2013 at 03:44 PM

Segregated fountains were enforced by law, with severe punishment or humiliation for those violating that law. I'm afraid it would be an illogical or dishonest argument.  

Since the lounge is completely optional, if LGBT gamers do not want attention drawn to them they can simply abstain from participating in the lounge area. People choose whether they want to stand out from the crowd or not. It's completely up to them.

 "Can't people of different backgrounds simply enjoy the same hobby and be happy about that?" No, they apparenlty can't. Apparently minorities are being discriminated against or undermined at these shows, and the show runners can't possibly police every foot of the floor space. Then you have the fact that many LGBT gamers feel the need to wear their LGBT status on their sleeve. Asking them not to do this would be even more of a PC faux pas than this lounge. Gender and sexual preference are things because the people  make them things. People are compelled to express themselves whether they are the 'outcasts' or the people hating on the 'outcasts', and there is nothing that can legally be done to stop them.  No one is just going to stop talking about these issues, ever. Best the show runners can do is find ways to manage the situation with what resources they can.

This is what happens when you make a hobby a fucking "culture." The games don't get better, and everything else gets worse, more petty. Perspective man, some people just lack it. Don't let the insanity bother you. It seems the loudest mouths are the ones that care least about the hobby. They only care about their image or ego. If they have time to wine and argue, they have time to play more games and maybe more games wouldn't get so overlooked and we wouldn't have the same couple of genres getting the lion's share of the funding and press. But how many of these fools are going to give the new Ys a chance, or go back and play Nier, or have a strategy game on their GoTY list? 

BrokenH

12/23/2013 at 05:09 PM

I can't argue,really. You're right, "human nature" sucks. I "want" a utopian gamer society where everyone can get along but perhaps some measure of "protecting minorities" and "giving them a special place" is in fact necessary. (Which makes me sad,Chris)

I also agree with your last statement. A lot of people in the lime-light supposedely representing gaming probably are not qualified to. It's sad a bulk of these people would look at you funny if you asked them what Y's, Lunar, or Nier were. I find many of these types of gamers are only concerned with modern AAA releases or the handful of indie games that somehow became trendy to play. Not that's the most terrible thing ever. They're allowed to have their "preferences" but they still annoy me on some level. Actually, that by itself is bearable. It's when you add "sensationalist misguided game journalism" I have a problem! (I'm a snob. Gods,it's finally happened! Who am I kidding? I've always been this way. Grumpy too!)

catgirl147

12/27/2013 at 07:45 AM

Um. Maybe I'm not understanding something here, but aren't we all 'diverse' and 'unique' in our own ways? I mean. I call myself 'different' all the time, but doesn't mean I need a special lounge for myself for that reason.

I get that the issue is different, relating to gender issues etc etc, but its still pretty much the same thing. It's hard for me to believe that there is a need for such segregation, I don't think it's necessary, required, or WANTED for that matter. I guess maybe in the back of someone's mind it came to fruition because someone wanted to give these 'diverse' people a place where they could feel comfortable, or something to that effect, but in reality it does the opposite- just segregates people more and makes them feel... I guess, even more 'different'. ....... so. I just don't know anymore sometimes.

BrokenH

12/29/2013 at 01:36 AM

In some cases I think it's because certain people want a "safe special place" and other times it's people who mean well fumbling the ball and making choices for other people which turns out badly. You know what they say,Carly. Hell is paved with good intentions!

Maybe I'm jumping the gun though. This could turn out to be the best upcoming PAX ever. I hope so!

asrealasitgets

12/29/2013 at 01:48 AM

Correct me if I'm mistaken but, isnt all this diversity thing a mea culpa on the part of the Penny Arcade guys for making some rape jokes and offending transgendered people? I remember there being some controversy about this. Some rape jokes in one of their comics or something. This has more to do with damage control than a sincere gesture to welcome "others" to PAX. If they want to diversify their event, then host it in Los Angeles or New York, where there are very divese populations.

BrokenH

12/31/2013 at 09:52 PM

I don't think the Dick-wolves joke targeted trans people specifically. Matter of fact the scared villager warning everyone about dick-wolf-rape was actually a guy. lol. Lewd as it is, at least dick-wolves go after every gender equally. Still,this made certain women uncomfortable at PAX.

I think it was Mike's comment that offended. He said something along the lines of "Girls have vaginas and guys have penises" in a tweet and some trans peeps got offended by it.

asrealasitgets

12/31/2013 at 10:00 PM

This is even more ridiculous than I expected LOL. Over a tweet? Oh dear. But if true, still a lame reason for Diversity lounge. 

BrokenH

12/31/2013 at 10:16 PM

"Public outrage" can be a scary thing and twitter escalates pointless asinine drama. lol. That's all I can really think to say.

What's funny is Penny Arcade always had somewhat offensive humor. What's next? Asking the creators of South Park and Family Guy to be "clean" and "non-offensive" in all aspects of their lives? (Granted, I don't like Family Guy but it has a right to exist without censorship)

SanAndreas

12/29/2013 at 03:12 AM

Right now, it's a sign of a generally tense political environment in this country on the subject going both ways. We saw some of this with the recent brouhaha over a certain reality TV celebrity. I also agree with Machocruz in that "segregated" is not a correct concept for this. If the LGBT gamers were only allowed in this particular area, by law, it would be segregation. Rather, this is a cover-your-ass move by Penny Arcade so as not to attract any more controversy on this particular subject. I'm not saying it was a great idea, but it is what it is.

A lot of LGBT "wear their LGBT status on their sleeves," as said above, because they can, and because I think a lot of them feel that for safety reasons it's better to be open with it than to keep it in the closet. While others may protest loudly saying they don't really care what someone else does in their bedroom as long as they don't "shove it on my face", the reality is that people are nosy and intrusive, especially when they're prone to snoop around for scandal and gossip. When LGBT people are quiet about their status, the too-curious will notice certain things amiss in a person compared to their perception of "normal", ask increasingly intrusive questions, and figure it out on their own anyway.  I've seen plenty of folks who are absolutely outraged at finding out that someone they've known for years was gay/lesbian/transgendered, and never told them, feeling that they had been "deceived" and "betrayed" by the person living a "double life". In some cases, that suddenly becomes a big safety issue for the LGBT person. Yes, this still happens even today.

BrokenH

12/31/2013 at 09:59 PM

I believe you and Chris are mostly right. It's sad that extra precautions need to be taken to protect certain gamers at these events but if we completely ignore violence against LGBT people is a possibility then history could very well be doomed to repeat itself.

 When I read it I was simply being "idealistic" and wearing my rose tinted glasses. I realize trolls are bad online but I rolled with the hypothesis that the same people wouldn't try the same shit amidst a crowd of witnesses and trained security personel. I still kind of believe that. LGBT gamers might hear unsavory whispers behind their backs but beyond that I'd like to imagine they would be safe and sound. 

 I still hope this diversity lounge is part of the main floor though. If it's too much off to the side it'll just come off as a nasty "Abnormal people go here!" vibe.

NSonic79

12/31/2013 at 01:34 PM

It's events like these that make me wonder if we are just going the wrong way when it comes to human interaction. It was like when I learned that was a CON called Gaymer that was suppose to cater to the gay/lesbian communites that felt unwelcome at other gamer cons.

If we have to focus too much on the differences of others for fear of offending their tender sensiblties then I fear we are missing the point entirely on human intergration.

BrokenH

12/31/2013 at 10:11 PM

Don't get me wrong. I want LGBT people to be welcomed,I really do. But I also think "activists" apart of these communities can be a tad too sensitive sometimes. I mean I've had people negatively comment about my long hair and grunge style of clothing but as much as it hurts to be seen as a "poor worthless bum on the side of the road" I don't write in asking local events to be "grunge sensitive".

That stated, being gay or being trans is every bit as challenging (in some cases more challenging) as being of a lower economic class. LGBT people should feel safe ANYWHERE but I doubt we can completely weed out the assholes who say mean or stupid shit. "Words" should not hold so much power. We would all benefit from learning to let the occasional insult or slur roll off our backs.

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