PixlBit

Having read the article in question, I can say I also found Kat's whole rape angle to be hyperbolic. As you said, yes, there is a sexual aspect to vampirism (there has been one since a least the 17th century!) but Kat's view seemed belligerent and illogical at best. Really, comparing a Castlevania vamp attack to a rape simulator? It's sad because this kind of schlock journalism does more to hurt the aspect of equality in gaming than the author probably realizes.

Also agree with the taboo themes of gaming's yesteryear not being an issue with people blowing whistles now. Christ, the themes in Silent Hill 2 were way more unsettling than Dracula grabbing a quick snack!

Angela's whole back-story in Silent Hill 2 was more controversial and disturbing for me than Dracula feeding on a family. The game flat out told us "Angela's father raped her" and there was no vagueness left to interpret it any other way.  

To me Kat lowered herself to click bait. I might be wrong but that's what my gut is telling me right now.

The scene definitely sounds uncomfortable, for sure, but I'm also kind of dumbfounded at her jump to equating it to rape. Like you and Kat both mentioned, Dracula is in a weakened state. He's doing it to survive. If he grabbed her and ripped her clothes off or started biting her in, you know, other places, then sure. Definite rape imagery. But taking out a random family because he needs to eat? That's just what Drac does.

Exactly. We're questioning the morals of a character who is essentially an anti-hero at his best and a flat out antagonist at his worst. That and he absolutely needs to drink blood to survive!

I love the Castlevania series. I know the games in the past have violent or occult themes, but as the current gen moves closer to photorealism, representing these themes with current CGI might be too extreme. Maybe Kat Bailey felt uncomfortable with what she saw. She expressed that in her preview. She even asked the dev if they considered removing the scene from the game altogether. She has a lot of experience covering the game industry, so if she took issue with the way Konami is marketing this game then I think she's qualified to address it in her article.

This is the cover of the game she mentioned reminded her of Castlevania, I think

 I'm not trying to white knight but she said this is what she was reminded of. All I want is castles and ghosts n things really. Lord of Shadows was too God of War for my liking anyway.

Do you really think her comparison to Rape-Lay is in any way accurate? (Beyond Drac attacking a family from a possibly 1st person perspective) I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. "Professional people" screw up too. Usually I respect Kat but I'm calling her on this.

The thing is such a game already exists. It's called Blood Rayne 2. It had violent bloody dismemberment and vampiric feeding and the way Rayne did it was very sensual.

Lastly, do you really think Lords Of Shadow 2 is somehow going to cross a line God Of War 3, GTA 5,The Last Of Us,Dante's Inferno,Saints Row 4,Metro,TombRaider 2013, and other very adult games have drawn in the sand? I kind of doubt it. Even with "photo realism" I doubt Dracula's feeding is going to look like a blood drenched violent porno.

I'm almost willing to bet money this "scene" is going to be much tamer than it is being made out to be. That's how it was with Lara Croft's supposed "rape scene". Having played Tombraider myself, I can tell you that moment had nothing to do with "sexual assault" and if you fail the QTE you get strangled to death. (Which to me is not any better than being "raped" but for some reason we hold "virtual murder" in a higher regard)

I'm not saying I'm offended, or would be if I were in the same situation as the journalists watching a cutscene. I actually like horror genre media. I think with Dracula, or vampire lore there is some sexual thing going on with their killing/assaulting. So if Drac is doing this, then there is an immediate connection to sex when he kills. I think this is the connection Kat was making, that you are sympathising with the character doing these sorts of things who is also super awesome and badass, which  makes a wierd combo. The dev even mentioned that there was internal issues at the company about removing the scene in question, so it probably bothered others as well. Maybe the connection to that "other" game she mentioned is a stretch, but I think she took issue with the way they were making it "feel really cool"! I don't know? Whatever?

What a vampire does IS basically rape. Why is it more disturbing to associate the two in this scene? They've always been there.

I dunno,man. I mean maybe if Dracula expressed some kind of "predatory sexual urge" for the woman. Perhaps if he embraced her and turned her into a vampiress or succubus for his personal pleasure against her will then yeah, I'd say it was symbolic of rape.

But in this case he was weak and popping necks just to regain his strength. It's animalistic instinct to survive at that point. It has nothing to do with "forced sex".

I'm not denying Dracula is a sensual and sexual creature. But I do think there's a distinct difference between feeding for pleasure and feeding for sustenence.

Yea, I was thinking about this all night, and aside from having to fend off female vampire who said she ONLY wanted a little blood, I thought just what you said that Vampires, although very sexy and seducing, are more often like animal predators that want to eat you. However, there is the TV show Dark Shadows where the vampire forces a woman to take the role of his long dead wife. There's no sex in it though. It's more psychological.

I wouldn't mind Dracula having a love interest or even a harem of beautiful vampire concubines. It would simply be going with what's already been estabilished by the lore. The attempt to censor fictional fantasy never made much sense to me. Trying to conform fictional entities to real moral codes is sheer lunacy!

I can't prove whether or not she's doing it for click-bait, and I could see someone genuinely feeling uncomfortable and finding it a bit rapey, but I also tend to agree that this is Dracula eating, not having sex with someone. Obviously, yes, there's the sexual nature inherent in vampires, but I don't think Cox or his team meant to imply rape, just that Dracula has to do some twisted things to survive. He gets his powers from blood, not raping. Or paying for sex, like a GTA character, for that matter.

Has Cox responded to her article at all?

I know she had a private round table conference with Cox and some of the other Mercury Steam staff,Joe. As I understand it Cox said the scene was supposed to make us "uncomfortable" and that he wanted their depiction of Dracula to be akin to the "scary vampires" of the olden days before properties like Twilight defanged them.

 I wish we could see the footage ourselves but apprentely this is a sneak peak only the upper eicholon journos got to witness. (Oh,the privilege!)

 It's okay if Kat found the scene "uncomfortable" but even how she described it did not immediately make me think "rape". It seems Gabriel (Dracula) finds the family while in a weakened state and he needs to feed on them to survive and to restore his strength. Granted,it's still the terrifying and horrendous act of a supernatural predator murdering human prey but to say it's "sexual" is a stretch. It's more like a starving hobo walking into a Mc Donalds and finding a whole super-sized value meal left unattended! 

Are we still in the age were literally everyone has to be offended by a video game and what it does? If so I need to go back to bed, wake me up in 20 years if things change. Maybe Im desnsitizated in the words of the Grinch but this shit is getting old and ridiclous fast. It might seem like Im a heartless human but it takes a full fledged lot to offend my ass with a video game. Dracula feeding has nothing to do with rape, fuck if you get down to true nature of vampires and the monsters they can be its not even sexual. Its plain, kill to live. Survival of the fittest!

Totally,Nicole! That's why I think Spike says it best. "Humans are happy-meals with legs!" Only time you can accuse a vampire of being "touchy feely" is when they literally make someone else into a fellow vampire. It implies the "sire" liked something about his or her new progency beyond them being a mere food source.

Technically an evil vamp might make someone into another vamp just to torment that person but in comparison to that Dracula was being merciful.

He fed on and killed the whole family instead of the alternative of turning one of them into a vampire to kill his or her own child and his or her own beloved. If you follow the Buffy mythos Angelus was meaner than Dracula could ever be.

The real shame here is that after her opening paragraph I found it impossible to take anything she said seriously. It was in my opinion a rather childish and sensationalist way to start her argument. If she had explored sexuality in games I would think it would have been a better choice to start with a game that had more of this context. It's fine to mention that she found something uncomfortable but to focus on that 10 secs of footage shows that perhaps she was the wrong choice in writing the article. Personally I don't see the point of pissing and moaning over this as there are far worse culprits out there and the comparison with Rapelay is like calling someone you disagree with Hitler. It's so extreme it just makes you look like a child.

I concur,Adam. It doesn't really matter"how" she relates Lords Of Shadow 2 to a pornographic hentai game based around stalking and sexaul assault. The damage by putting those games in the same sentence is already done. People play the negative word association game when they want to vilify and slander their opposition. (And I feel bad for anyone gullible enough to buy into this. )

I kinda wish to respond to this, but with so many debacles going around about Rape and all the stuff that I see on Tumblr about the subject (hint: it ain't pretty), I pretty much got burned by almost anything to do with the theme.

I guess something that I would agree with some here it's that there is a sexual nature to vampires, but that's something that's been as old as the first publication of Dracula.

I agree with that too. But in this case I think the scene in question was added to remind us Dracula is a monster more because he murders a family rather than any awkward subjective context of rape by feeding on a woman. According to other descriptions he feeds on the whole family,including the father. Maybe Kat missed that part though. Regardless we will not know how graphic this scene is until the game releases,Alejandro!

Dracula and vampires in general have always been about sex in some way. They're always charismatic characters entrancing women and then sucking their blood. What's the issue? It's what the monster is. Of course it's like a rape. They possess their victims. I don't get it. She's just stating the obvious and getting upset about it.

Yeah, I kind of feel that way too. Dracula is a monster. That's sort of the whole point. Whether feeding for sustenence or feeding for pleasure, violence and a sense of victimization are implied either way.

Honestly in this case I think it was more of a case of "I'm weak and dying....need food NOW!" But even if there's a more sexual feeding later I would not say it would offend me as "this" is Dracula's gig,mate!

Has she ever watched Trueblood?

Now True Blood could be racy. Especially when the vampires were literally being put into detainment camps and forced to breed under observation for "scentific research". It also implied not all partcipants were "willing". 

 Wow... Has she ever seen anything to do with vampires, like at all?

Good point,Blake. lol. Kat seems intelligent and well versed in various mythologies so yeah, I'd assume she knows about vampires in one way or another.

It's just that the whole point of vampires is that they drink blood. They are supposed to make you uncomfortable, because they reflect the things a certain society fears. When they were first invented, they were demonic seductors who represented lust, greed, and power. Now that we aren't as dominated by catholicism, it seems we use vampires more to represent troubled relationships, the fear of being in love with a monster, or the fact that you have no control over who you love. This is just an extension of that.

I agree. I think this is supposed to be a combination of the old (ancient demonic  aristocratic blood sucking monster) and new (But he's still "troubled", handsome when buffed to full strength, and kind of good! Er,at least better than Satan!)

Either way, we're supposed to be playing a flawed tragic character much like Kratos was. (And I don't know why Mercury Steam gets upset with God Of War comparisons because controversy aside,it was a great series. To be likened to God Of War is an honor,really. Though admittedely the word "clone" often has a negative connotation.)

I understand where Kat is coming from and she's perfectly in her right to write about something that disturbed her. But without seeing the scene (reading a description is one thing, seeing the execution is another), I can't fully say whether I agree with her. A lot of things can happen between now and the game's release so we'll see if it makes the cut. She's not click-baiting, though. This is an important issue to her.

By the way, I haven't played the previous game so that may limit my perspective a bit.

I understand why an interactive first person account of feeding on a helpless family would be jarring. I'm not really angry it made Kat uncomfortable or that she voiced her opinion. 

 Like you I simply wish we could see the footage ourselves. I also think comparing a game like this to Rape-Lay is a low-blow and even the creator of Rape-lay is quoted as saying Kat's comparison trivilizes rape. (I think it's a spoof but it still brings up a valid point) 

 I'd have no problem with Kat's article if she had simply left out the Rape-lay comparison. It's very hyperbolic and obiviously meant to damn whatever is associated with it. 

Being offended is one thing, but I have a very hard time believing that such a thing could evoke the likes of goddamn RapeLay. I'll need to see the scene myself.

We're on the same page. I don't mind Kat was uncomfortable and voiced her opinion. But comparing Lords Of Shadow 2 to Rape-Lay is way over the top sensationalist.

I don't think that she was actually comparing LoS to Rape-Lay.  I think that she was reminded of the box art because of the way that the scene played out in the first person perspective with Dracula's arms outstretched.  

I think that because of Twilight and a lot of these "vampires" in the media nowadays people have forgotten what a real vampire is and what they really do.  There is nothing good about vampires and there is nothing to love about them...  I don't quite understand how they are capable of love. 

Merely bringing up Rape-lay in the same sentence or same topic as Lords Of Shadow 2 is pretty damning though. I realize Kat meant it's because the Drac scene plays out in a 1st person perspective and that the Rape-lay cover is ALSO a 1st person perspective but would anyone want their game associated with something so morally distasteful? It's an obvious attack and attempt at slander so yeah, I consider it stirring controversy just for clicks. Kat is intelligent so I'm rather sure she knew what would happen when she used RAPE-LAY as a reference.

Don't get me wrong, she's allowed to be offended, Trans. But I am calling her out on the way she expresses her offense. And you're also dead on about vampires. I think a lot of people have forgotten they were originally scary monsters! 

It sure did stir up controversy.  The comment thread is the biggest one I have ever seen on USgamer.net.

Yup,and that's probably what they wanted. End-game objective accomplished! I did not bother signing up and responding as I recognized the bait right away.

 I much rather give Pixlbit traffic & replies even when I'm talking about another site.

Yea, and now I'm going to hear about it on all my podcasts I'm sure.

Someone will bring it up I'm sure. lol. As it stands I'm pretty damned glad I came here as opposed to migrating to USGamer. They already seem to be akin to how 1up was right before it collapsed in on itself.

I've been meaning to check that place out since Jeremy Parish writes there, but I really only have time for Pixlbit right now.

Jeremy always seemed alright. We didn't agree on everything but at least he had the decency to crack down on Bob Mackey when "bobservo" unleashed his troll minions upon me. USgamer might be an okay site but sadly this is my first impression.

I think that you just chose the wrong article to read from over there then.  I don't read everything from USgamer, but I don't think that I have seen any over-sensationalizing until this article.  Even Mackey's work has been civil from what I recall.

Glad the site's overall demeanor is chill. Heck, it's even nice to think perhaps Bob has mellowed out a bit too. I don't rule out that people can change over time.

Totally agree with you.  I think she's been corupted by her peers and decided to believe the hype. 

Kat does pull some odd stuff from time to time.  I became friends with her on 1UP before she joined the 1UP staff.  At the time she was still living in Japan.  I got into an arguement with her about Japanese gamers' taste in games.  I thought MS shouldn't be bending over backwards to attract Japanese gamers that won't play their games or buy their consoles simply because MS is a western videogame company.  In her backwards logic, I was being the nationalist.  Me!?  How can anyone be a gamer and not play Japanese games?  In the end, we agreed to disagree, but I still think about that moment everytime I see her name. 

I often wonder if these people truly believe what they write or simply know what they write will give them page views. With Bob Mackey I always got the feeling he was less of a social justice warrior and more of a leering troll who just pretended to be a social justice warrior knowing it would piss off certain people. (Thus generating traffic and angry responses)

I hope the same is not true of Kat,James. I always thought she was better than that!

She use to do some great blogs with funnydale from 1UP.  I always wonder why they stopped doing those blogs together.  

Her blogs on rpgs were really good too. Very nostalgic and informative. I found games I missed because of Kat!

The Rape-lay comparison is a bit much.  And even if the new Castlevania was exactly like Rape-lay, so what.  Let them make the game they want.  If people don't want it then they won't buy it.  Simple.  

This whole movement of "I'm offended, so they shouldn't do this" bullshit is so tired.  

I agree. And while something like Rape-lay may offend my personal sensibilities it has a right to exist. Heck, I used to draw hentai so I cannot really cast any stones.

 Personally I do not find Rape-Lay to be the worst thing that exists (Especially when compared to "real" rape and "real" domestic violence) but given America's cultural values & ethics any comparison to Rape-lay is obiviously done to discredit and slander.

I doubt the 1st person feeding scene is going to come anywhere close to what Rapelay does. I have no doubt the victimization of the family will make us uncomfortable and make us question the character we are playing as but not in the same way Rapelay would make us uncomfortable. (Though yeah,murdering a family off one by one is grisly and disturbing. But what can we expect when we're playing as Dracula?)

I used to listen to her podcast Roleplayer's Realm. She was always interesting. She popped up on Retronauts from time to time too.

That's why all this kind of punches me in the gut,Knight. I'm simply not used to Kat being sensationalist whilst presenting stawmen. I'm sure she's still a good person though. I hope she learns a few things from this.

I thought it would have been a better article if Kat dropped the Rape-Lay comparison and if she didn't put her own ridiculous twist on what Cox said. It's okay she was bothered by the scene in question but pumping it up to be somehow more controversial than "No Russian" or the "The Posedion's daughter sacrifice" in GOW 3 is over-reaching a lot.

Seeing as this is a hot topic, I think that I'll hold off with my opinion about the game for now until I see some actual footage. But one thing I do disagree about though is that the whole "I disagree with something something so it should be removed" thing that seems to be apperantly terrible and that the creators can do whatever they want. If something is bad or disagreeable in a game it should be pointed out to the devs because they can change it.

This might be a bit of a unrelated analogy, but what do you think would happen if the Xbox One kept it's whole always online thing because nobody spoke up about it? Those sort of practices might have become the norm, worsening the state of gaming as it is. These sort of things come to mind when I read people saying that the devs can do what they want. 

It's not exactly a fair comparison though. With the Xbox 1 it was a performance issue. For a lot of people having to be online 24/7 would be difficult proposition. Not everyone has a 100% stable power grid. That and there were even time caps on how long you could play a game at a friend's house. (Originally mind you. Fortunately it is not like that now) To top it off there were issues related to invading our privacy which was highly unconstitutional.

  By contrast this is a piece of entertainment much like a book (Game Of Thrones) or television series (True Blood/Walking dead). The people calling for a change in this case are not doing so because their freedoms are being trampled or because of a shitty online only functionality model. They're doing so because they're "offended".

  If you want to run with that argument tell me,how offensive is the HBO adaptation of Game Of thrones? How offensive is friggin Sparticus or Walking Dead? Many people love those shows but they're well known for their deptictions of violence,sex,and rape. Do you want them taken off the air? Do you think "the polite police" should be an authority that has the right to speak for all people? Probably not because you're a reasonable person! However,Kat feels differently.

  The scene in question is a first person perspective where Dracula feeds on a cowering family. Yes, it's a disturbing scene but there have been many games with equally disturbing scenes. And comparing neck biting to raping people ala Rape-lay? Sorry, going to have to call bullshit on this one. 

  I'm not advocating for anyone to be mean to Kat or send her nasty tweets but I have good reasons to disagree with her on this.

Touché I guess. I think that calling for change in something that affects the artistic integrity or is supposed to be interpreted in a way is kinda ridiculous.  I wasn't really talking about this game  and this specific incidence, more just the stigma that comes with  telling someone that they're wrong and need to change. Kat Bailey and her trifle with the game though is probably unwarranted and an overreaction. 

There is a stigma,you're right about that! And I don't always agree with "how" people disagree. For example, I'd never threaten to kill Kat's gold fish or piss on her car. Some people go way too far when they disagree with someone. I simply "disagree".

If you catch me at my worst I might say "Hey,f^ck off!" . But threatening someone and their family because I don't like their article? No,just no. That's not cool!

Huh, I'm not sure what to think really. I understand that she's entitled to her opinion and I'm not one of those people who's just gonna lash out at someone who views something differently than I do.

On the other hand, I've already seen many dipictions of monsters of various types going through the exact same or very similar situation she describes in various media throughout my life without being met with these kinds of accusations.

That's a balanced analysis and how I feel too. She has a right to be offended and voice her opinion. However, I do not see how this stands out more than a moment like "The Red Wedding" or "No Russian". Personally I find it difficult to believe Kat truly was offended and if she was she must have gone through something quite traumatic to immediately relate a vampire attack upon a family to the box-art for Rape-Lay. Personally I think it's sensationalist click bait but I entertain the possibility I might be wrong too.

I'm interested to see the scene now, curious to see if it insinuates what Kat says it does. If it does, how she feels about it is how she feels, and like you said, thats fine. Although, If it does give an overtly sexual voilence vibe to it, I think it doesnt belong in Castlevania. Not to say it doesn't belong in video games, or vampire video games for that matter, just not Castlevania. I like my Castlevania heavy on the gothic, medium on the gore, and extra light on the sex.

It's my hypothesis Dracula was very weak and needed to drink from the family to survive and restore his vitality. To me that's not "rape related" thogh yeah,playing as Dracula as he drinks a whole cowering household dry is still going to be disturbing to sit through. Then again,we're playing as a monster. 

But Tami and avid are right. We will not know until we see the actual scene in question ourselves.

Like others, I'd have to see the scene before I can make any real judgement. Could be she was put off because the desperate Dracula didn't latch on to the first human he came to - he killed the man and then sucked the blood of the woman. If he was so desperate, why was he so desciminating in his tastes?

That's playing it wise,Tami. If I see the scene and it in any way looks like "sexual assault" I will gladly eat crow and admit I was wrong!

However, other accounts of the footage actually said Dracula simply fed on the man first before moving onto the woman. Kat seems to have ignored the dad and the child in her analysis.

Guess we'll wait and see!

I don't get this. How could that scene be seen as such. All that makes me want to do is finally play the game and see what I am missing.

Was she the one that mentioned she was a lesbian back on 1up.com or was that another writer on there?

I don't know if Kat ever talked about her sexual preference but her being a lesbian would not make me think less of her as a person. I simply think it's ludicrous to compare a mainstream Castlevania game to RapeLay. By that ridiculous logic weren't there things in GTA 5,Saints Row 4, and God Of War 3 comparable to RapeLay?

It's okay if the scene bothered her but I do not think anyone else is going to see this scene in the same way as her. To me it stinks of the "Lara Croft Rape Scene Scandal" all over again. That's why I refuse to give USgamer a direct reply.

Super late to this party but I just wanted to add that in every other preview written by people at the same event. The whole family gets fed on, not just the mother as Kat said.

I read that too. Maybe she "blinked" and missed something? lol.